This transcript is generated with the help of AI and is lightly edited for clarity.
STEVE KERR:
There’s eight children or teens a day that are shot accidentally in the United States by guns that are not stored safely. So this is not, “Hey, we’re trying to take your guns away.” This is, we want our kids to be safe. We want you to be safe. There’s a middle ground to be found here where you get your Second Amendment rights. We protect our children, and we can form a much healthier society.
KRIS BROWN:
76% of school shooters get their guns from a home where that firearm is not safely stored. We could cut gun deaths in half tomorrow, and it wouldn’t take another law being passed. That’s worth doing.
REID:
Hi, I’m Reid Hoffman.
ARIA:
And I’m Aria Finger.
REID:
We want to know how, together, we can use technology like AI to help us shape the best possible future.
ARIA:
We ask technologists, ambitious builders, and deep thinkers to help us sketch out the brightest version of the future—and we learn what it’ll take to get there.
REID:
This is Possible.
REID:
Full disclosure, and to no surprise to those who know me, my knowledge of sports is, shall we say, limited. But I do know firsthand how powerful it is when the right team, leader, mission, and opportunity come into alignment. While my lens is entrepreneurship, I see how sports can uniquely foster teamwork, build resilience, and amplify human potential. Prominent coaches and athletes, no doubt, have plenty to offer us about tackling some of the toughest challenges we face as a society.
ARIA:
One of our guests today has shown us exactly that. Steve Kerr, head coach of the Golden State Warriors, is celebrated for leading his team to four NBA championships and a record-breaking 73–9 season. Before his coaching career, he was part of the legendary Chicago Bulls roster led by Michael Jordan. And beyond the court, his success is matched by his powerful and outspoken advocacy against gun violence, a commitment deeply rooted in his own personal history.
REID:
Joining him is Kris Brown, President of Brady, the nation’s oldest gun violence prevention organization. For more than 30 years, Kris has been at the forefront of this work, beginning with her efforts on the groundbreaking Brady Bill that established federal background checks.
ARIA:
Together, Kris and Steve bring both expertise and reach: one leading a national movement, the other using a global platform to amplify this cause. In this conversation, they’ll share how their partnership addresses the crisis of gun violence and how sports can be a force for cultural change. Then in the second half, we’ll dive deeper into Steve’s leadership philosophy and the new technologies — from AI to robotics — reshaping the NBA and amplifying players’ potential.
REID:
This episode does touch on technology, but explores a wider range of our normal definition of what’s possible through advocacy policy and coalition building. Here’s our conversation with Steve Kerr and Kris Brown.
REID:
Alright, Steve, great to see you again. Kris, very nice to meet you. Excellent to have you on the podcast. I’ll kick us off. So, Steve, as coach of the Golden State Warriors, you’ve led teams to four championships, and even that historic 73–9 season. You often talk about culture and helping players become the best versions of themselves. What do you see as the cornerstone of your leadership philosophy?
STEVE KERR:
I would say collaboration, coaching. I think it’s really important if you’re in a position of authority to really know your stuff, but it’s equally as important to admit that you don’t know everything. So I really empower my players to voice their opinions, and all of our coaches—doesn’t matter if they’re the newest guy or the oldest guy—I want everybody to chip in. And when everyone feels comfortable bringing ideas and you end up with genuine collaboration, you usually end up in the best place.
ARIA:
And can you talk to us about a story of—like you talked about your sort of imposter syndrome and your early days with the Chicago Bulls. I don’t know why, because candidly, I was 11 years old—and this is true—every single day I checked the newspaper in the morning to make sure that Michael Jordan still had the most points of anyone. And to make sure that you still had the top three-point percentage of anyone in the league. Every day, as an 11-year-old, I got the paper, and that’s all I cared about. So I don’t know why you had this imposter syndrome that maybe you had to overcome, but can you share a story of perhaps a particular player who you think really thrived under that philosophy?
STEVE KERR:
Well, first as a player, I didn’t have any scholarship offers coming out of high school. And so I really was an underdog—for a reason. I really wasn’t that good, to be honest with you. I was kind of a late bloomer, and so I had to build my confidence as I learned and I grew. But I played for great coaches, and Phil Jackson was just an incredible communicator and collaborator. And when I got to Chicago, my career really took off. I learned from Phil, I learned from Gregg Popovich, and that style that I have really mirrors theirs. There was just an open forum every day in Chicago, in San Antonio. So, I think Draymond Green comes to mind. He’s as smart of a defensive basketball player as I’ve ever seen. So when I started opening it up to him, saying, “Hey, what do you think?” Boy, he jumped in and he loved sharing his opinion. And by the way, he’s usually right. So, he’s a guy I think of.
ARIA:
Draymond will like to hear that he’s usually right.
STEVE KERR:
Yeah.
REID:
The values that you’ve learned on the court extend beyond basketball and into the issues that you champion. So how have these leadership values—the leadership style—fueled your advocacy against gun violence and your partnership with Kris and Brady?
STEVE KERR:
I was personally affected by gun violence. My dad was killed when he was 52—I was 18. So it’s something that affected my family deeply. And I think I realized as I became more recognizable, more famous as the Warriors coach—we really took off and started winning championships. And social media is exploding, and I just became a much more recognizable figure. And I realized that I could actually have a voice in this area where I had deep concerns, but I needed to learn more about the issue. I needed to learn how to speak on the issue in an intelligent way. So Brady reached out to me, and that was nine years ago—I think. And it was the best thing that I could do because Brady taught me how to speak on this issue, and what was happening, and what’s important, and where are the areas where we can make improvements. And we’ve had a great partnership ever since.
ARIA:
I used to run an organization—DoSomething—and we would always actually talk about the partnership that you guys had as such an amazing example of a nonprofit organization partnering with someone who both had personal experience but could also use their voice. And Kris, I think you’ve done just an excellent job. And you began your career on Capitol Hill advocating for what would become the groundbreaking Brady Bill. And that—for those who don’t know—that mandated federal background checks for firearm sales, which seems like such a no-brainer. And so, looking back at that early work, Kris, what were the significant lessons you learned about the intersection of policy advocacy, publicity that continues to guide your work?
KRIS BROWN:
So many lessons learned from that, and truly from the masters, Jim and Sarah Brady. I guess three really stand out to me. The importance of never giving up when you know you’re fighting for something that’s so critically important. That’s the first. The second is the importance of innovation. We don’t always think about governments as innovative, but when you’re trying to get a bill passed into law, you have to be innovative and you have to be responsive. And the third is probably being strategic about how we approach an issue that’s the number one killer of our kids. And Jim and Sarah were lifelong gun owners. Jim was shot about three months into his service as Ronald Reagan’s press secretary. He had grievous injuries. He died years later, but after being harmed enough that he was basically bound to a wheelchair. He died twice at GW and was revived.
KRIS BROWN:
He, in other words, had suffered the worst that gun violence could deliver him. The worst had happened. And yet he devoted his life, with Sarah, to ensure other people did not get injured and killed in this way. In much the same way that Steve is doing. And that, I think, for me, as a human being, I feel that for those of us who are not victims of gun violence, it’s on us to lift our voices here. And that to me was a real lesson because I do have to tell people over and over again, it gives me hope that after six years and seven votes—that’s how long it took for the Brady Law to be enacted—it actually passed the Senate by unanimous consent. That means not a single member of the Senate voted against it. It’s a lot because they were strategic.
KRIS BROWN:
They kept lists of every single conversation they had, and they found different persuasion points along the way. And they were innovative. They changed the bill over time. And thank goodness, because that law has now stopped the sale of more than five million firearms to prohibited purchasers. And so that’s really a guide star for us and how we think about the issue as one that is challenging, but that is absolutely solvable. Because it is a stain on our country that guns are the number one killer of our kids. And I won’t accept it. And I know that Steve and many others will not either.
REID:
Amazing work. That’s part of the reason why we wanted to have this conversation, because it’s obviously incredibly important for saving American children’s lives, American lives. I don’t know how many unanimous Senate votes there are in history. I’m thinking it might be a good AI deep research topic for me to go ask that.
GOOGLE GEMINI:
Hi there, Gemini here with some additional context. The question of how often major legislation passes by unanimous consent—like the Brady Bill—is tricky. It is extremely rare for a contentious major bill to pass with a truly unanimous vote. The Brady Bill, which mandated federal background checks for handgun purchases, is a perfect illustration of why. While the final procedural step in the Senate—adopting the conference report—was accomplished via voice vote, often referred to as unanimous consent when no one objects, the core bill was highly divisive. Earlier, the bill had passed the Senate 63 to 36 and the House 238 to 189. The significance of that final unanimous procedure was not full agreement, but rather a procedural concession. After a seven-year political war, the gun lobby’s opposition had been defeated on the substantive votes. That final quick step simply reflected the opposition acknowledging defeat and choosing not to drag out the end of a bill that was already a landmark, high-profile victory for gun violence prevention advocates.
REID:
So elaborating this, one of the things that we also thought was the wonder of the story is not just the success at preventing five million wrong sales of guns, and what that means for saving lives and saving children’s lives, but also the fact that it’s an all of us issue. But how does Steve’s voice as a basketball coach help strengthen the mission and collective impact? What’s surprised and delighted you most so far in the nine years of this partnership?
KRIS BROWN:
Well, I have to say on my plane ride over here, I watched Ted Lasso for the 15th time, probably. And I was thinking to myself that human being that comes closest to Ted Lasso that I’m so thrilled to know is absolutely Coach Kerr in every possible way. And I think for our cause, the folks who are really causing issues for us are, yes, gun rights extremists, but more sinister is hopelessness. And we can’t be inured to gun violence. So seeing someone like Coach Kerr following Uvalde…
STEVE KERR (CLIP):
Any basketball questions don’t matter. Since we left shootaround, 14 children were killed, 400 miles from here, and a teacher. When are we going to do something? I’m tired of the moments of silence. Enough. So I ask you, Mitch McConnell, I ask all of you senators who refuse to do anything about the violence and school shootings and supermarket shootings, I ask you, are you going to put your own desire for power ahead of the lives of our children and our elderly and our churchgoers? Because that’s what it looks like. They won’t vote on it because they want to hold onto their own power. It’s pathetic. I’ve had enough.
KRIS BROWN:
Everyone I know that I meet across this country remembers that. Even if they didn’t see it, it went viral for a reason. He’s a survivor; he lost his father this way, but he’s a coach. And too often it’s been thoughts and prayers or a moment of silence, and people saw that raw emotion and felt empowered. “I want to do something more.” And it’s beyond that too, because for every meeting that we have with coach—even though he is by now an absolute expert on our issue—he comes with a notebook and a pen, and he’s always a student of this cause of what more he can do. He shows up, and he wants to use his platform. We can’t find a partner who is better, more capable. And I hope he can be a beacon to many others who, even if you don’t have a full platform, you have spheres of influence.
STEVE KERR:
Well, first of all, thank you for the wonderful compliment, Kris. I was actually just doodling during those meetings. I wasn’t taking notes.
ARIA:
He was drawing up plays.
STEVE KERR:
Yeah, drawing up plays. I think the most important thing for people to realize is that we know that the government is not going to handle this on their own. This is a cultural issue. It’s a legislation issue. We’re just stuck in this stupid political society where we are right now, where it’s completely dysfunctional. So what is going to change this is the people of our country. We know that about 90% of Americans want universal background checks. We know that the vast majority of people—whether you’re a Republican or a Democrat—actually want common sense gun safety laws. We all know that we are protecting our own children or our neighbors’ children. So we can’t leave it up to our elected representatives to do this. We have to push the cause to the point where the public opinion is so strong that they have no choice but to address it. Right now, it’s just being ignored because it’s a really good hot button to get yourself elected on. And there’s fear-mongering like every other point in our political world these days. There’s all this fear-mongering going on. “They want to take away your guns.” That’s not true at all. In fact, really, the people we are trying to reach is the gun owners.
KRIS BROWN:
A hundred percent.
STEVE KERR:
We want you to provide your child with the safest possible home. So that’s why Brady has this “End Family Fire” campaign going on. There’s eight children or teens a day that are shot accidentally in the United States by guns that are not stored safely. So this is not, “Hey, we’re trying to take your guns away.” This is, we want our kids to be safe. We want you to be safe. There’s a middle ground to be found here where you get your Second Amendment rights, we protect our children, and we can form a much healthier society.
ARIA:
I think, Steve, one thing you said that’s so important, everything right now is partisan. Everyone thinks it’s 50-50, but to your point, it’s not 50-50 on this issue. 90% of Americans are in agreement that this is something we need—Republican, Democrat, military families, gun owners. And Kris, what you said that I think is so critical—again, in these polarized times—is the worst thing that can happen is that we lose hope. The opposite of hope is cynicism. And if we think there’s nothing to be done, then nothing is going to be done. If we need a legislative solution, what could we do? Is there a way to build actual bipartisan momentum on this issue?
KRIS BROWN:
Yes, there is. And I do want to note that only about three years ago now, we did in fact pass what’s called the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. We had 15 Republicans vote yes on that measure. And it was after Uvalde, and there was a lot of pressure to do something more. Did it have everything we wanted? No, it didn’t. But, it was an important milestone for us. And I will tell you it is too often partisan in the United States Congress. It’s the only House or Senate where this issue is at all controversial. They know huge, vast majorities of their constituents care about this issue tremendously. My friends who are in the legislature, when they go door-knocking, they say it’s guns and healthcare as the top two issues. Gun violence prevention is an issue up and down the ballot. It’s not just at the federal level.
KRIS BROWN:
We have 50, mostly contiguous states. California is one of the states where we have gotten more gun violence prevention bills passed than any other state. Now, we often hear from folks on the other side, “Well, it doesn’t matter. State laws really don’t work.” That is bunk. The five states with the most strong gun laws have a 71% reduced experience of gun death and injury compared to the states with the five weakest laws. We’re not sitting around as an organization that has chapters and advocates and partners across this country waiting for this particular congress or this particular president to move forward. But we are incubating the next set of solutions in every possible state that we can—and increasingly in many purple states. And I just want to add, for us at Brady, this is a public health epidemic. And so we looked at how have we solved other public health epidemics in time?
KRIS BROWN:
Drunk driving used to be a huge killer. People weren’t wearing seat belts. The way those issues were solved, yes, they got better policy. Yes, they got better enforcement of the law. But it started actually with social norm change campaigns—with “Buckle Up”, with “Designated Driver”. You have to win the hearts and minds of people and bridge divides that way. And then the policy’s a lot easier to have happen, as is the enforcement. That’s why for us at Brady, our big focus is on our “End Family Fire” campaign and also working with Hollywood. We now have agreements with all of the major studios to reframe how guns are portrayed on TV. Let’s lift up responsible gun ownership. Let’s have people putting firearms in safes. Let’s have the police officer coming home and locking up his gun. Because you know what—most of them—almost everyone I’ve ever talked to who’s a law enforcement officer, says the minute I get home, that’s the first thing that I do. And they’re trained to do that, and that’s what their collective bargaining agreements require. So I think for us, we think about this very holistically. If you can’t change the laws, you change the lawmakers. And ultimately, that power rests with us. We have to inform ourselves of who is a gun violence prevention champion—like Maxwell Frost, who we helped elect, amazing, first Gen Z member of Congress—and who’s not. Because almost every candidate running out there is staking a position on one side of the line or the other. It’s pretty binary.
REID:
Completely agree. Now, this is a little bit of a stage left question—but I’m curious for either of you—do you see any role for technology, innovation? Might be a social media question in terms of memes, TikTok, YouTube, et cetera, but also maybe other things that you think hold real promise. Kris, let’s start with you and then Steve, we’ll—pun intended—pass the ball.
KRIS BROWN:
Well, the first that I would raise is why is it harder for me to access my phone than it is to access a firearm? Why don’t we have smart gun technology on every single gun manufactured in the United States? And the reason is because the gun industry effectively behaves as a cabal and is mostly unregulated. But there would be a great opportunity and a good market for an innovator who decided that they wanted to partner with one of those companies to make money, is selling smart guns to many gun owners who would be eager to purchase exactly those kinds of firearms. And the same is true, Reid, for gun safes. We’ve seen a lot of improvement in gun safes. I have a neighbor who just bought one, smaller, for his handgun. I put my finger on it, it opened in one second. But there’s a lot more opportunity to make it even less expensive.
REID:
So kids couldn’t open them, for example.
KRIS BROWN:
A hundred percent. So kids can’t open them. And I just have to say, why is that so important? 76% of school shooters get their guns from a home where that firearm is not safely stored. We could cut gun deaths in half tomorrow, and it wouldn’t take another law being passed. It wouldn’t take better enforcement. Of course, I want these things. So that’s really important. The other opportunity—and since I’m talking to you, Reid Hoffman, I’m going to raise this again. The gun industry has immunity from liability, purported. And you know, as a businessman, there is something that you focus on when you know there’s a risk of litigation associated with innovation, like research and development, and all of these things. And you, as a supplier of a product, would be very unlikely to allow your product to be sold by a dealer that routinely sells to traffickers of firearms.
KRIS BROWN:
That wouldn’t make a lot of sense. That doesn’t happen with gun manufacturers today. What we know is that five percent of gun dealers in this country—and we have more of them than McDonald’s and Starbucks combined—five percent of them are responsible for 90% of guns recovered in crime. So, what if you had an organization that knew which dealers in the country were routinely violating the law, and you could provide that information through a technology solution to gun purchasers, to the federal government and state governments? The organization that could help a tech entrepreneur do that is Brady. We have that information. We just need to make it ubiquitous, and we need technology platforms to do that.
REID:
I think there’s a stack of great ideas there. I know this may be heretical, especially amongst the gun industry, but I tend to be in favor of, as opposed to the no liability, it’s like, here is where you have safe harbor, if you’re behaving within these norms. And for example, you have a list of people you don’t sell to because they sell a whole bunch of guns to criminals, or people who go and kill a whole bunch of people. Like, okay, don’t sell to those people.
KRIS BROWN:
Exactly. So we have a code of conduct that could be used as a safe harbor. Have you made sure you trained your employees? Do you bring your inventory back at night? Have you done all of these things? Well, you should get a safe harbor. I completely agree with you.
ARIA:
I mean, I think it’s so clear here that this is such an important issue and there’s so many things we can do. We can go the legislative route, we can go the technological route. And then of course, I think at the heart of all of that is what is the public communications, and how are we going to get everyday citizens, everyday Americans to do something. And so Steve, you spoke up about Laura Ingraham’s “shut up and dribble” comment, telling athletes just stay in your lane, please. What is your argument against that, and how do you convince other people who have stature and influence and social media to speak out when they’ll get some pushback for sure?
STEVE KERR:
Well, I don’t really try to convince anybody; I just try to set an example that if we choose to, we have that power. And the thing I learned right away was know what you’re talking about. The first thing I said when I did the podcast in 2015, where I brought it up—and by the way, the reason I did it is because we had three consecutive moments of silence during the playoffs that year for mass shootings. And by the third one, it’s like, “Okay, enough.” When I did the podcast, I said, “We can’t have these automatic weapons out on the streets.” And I immediately got all this feedback from gun owners, like, “We don’t have automatic weapons, we have semi-automatic weapons.” And I learned quickly, like, “Oh, I better know what I’m talking about.” So make sure you do your homework.
STEVE KERR:
That’s why I connected with Brady to learn. Maybe the most important thing I learned was day one—that I think about every day—is don’t call it gun control. Soon as you say gun control, it sounds like government control. Refer to it as gun violence prevention. Because that’s really what we’re trying to do. We’re not trying to control anybody; we’re just trying to save lives and protect people. So there’s this middle ground that’s just waiting for us. But I think most people don’t really understand the power that they have. And you can talk to your representative and bring all these things up. And ultimately, that’s what it’s going to take, is a cultural movement where our representatives have no choice but to listen to us.
REID:
Have you guys done any social media campaigns, like the Ice Bucket Challenge, or other kinds of things? Have they worked? Because cultural norms, one of the things that we tend to think as technologists is these new media allow a much broader participatory. You can imagine high school kids saying, “Save my life, be responsible about guns.” Have you guys done any of that?
STEVE KERR:
Reid, maybe you could help me with that. Honestly.
REID:
Delighted to.
STEVE KERR:
Honestly, I think there are so many opportunities. I got rid of social media four years ago, and I’ve been living blissfully ever since. But unfortunately, I wouldn’t know how to even start on a campaign like that. But if I had somebody helping me with it, 100% I would try to optimize my platform in a way that could reach more people. One of the most powerful voices after Uvalde was actually Matthew McConaughey. He drove to Uvalde, and he is a Texan; he is a gun owner. I think it’s one thing for people to hear from me—the liberal coach from San Francisco—but I think the more people out there who can really relate to, from the gun owner’s side.
KRIS BROWN:
We know we want to amplify those voices. And we have so many different stories to tell. The ability to do that in a way that would partner with others who have larger social media platforms could be transformative. Because what’s happening right now is that either bots or really extremist individuals, who don’t represent what 90% of Americans think, seem to control the narrative. And they’re cowing participation away from the average person. So we need to demonstrate, “Hey, look, there is this broad swath of support,” because it’s there. But I don’t think it’s as obvious to the average American as it is to me. And others in this movement.
REID:
A couple of my team members I know, will enthusiastically, as well as myself and Aria, try to help on this. Aria is the CEO of Do Something, which is the largest teen philanthropy network. So we will endeavor to help. Because I think it’s very important. So Kris, this is a classic Possible question. Can you leave us with a final thought about what you think is possible to achieve if everything breaks humanity’s way in the next 15 years? And then what’s our first step to set off in that direction
KRIS BROWN:
In 15 years, if we focus on things like “End Family Fire”, safe storage, and the cultural piece of this, we have the ability to not only ensure that every firearm in every home is safely stored. And of course, that is cutting gun deaths in half, but then on top of that, the technologies around controlling the supply chain, when we’re talking about that issue, that is driving homicides across the country. So that’s a different element of gun violence. We can materially decrease those homicides. We could stop trafficking if we wanted to. With the right supply chain approach, augmented by technology. And the blue sky there is, gun violence is not the number one killer of our kids. It’s more in line with the experience of every other industrialized country across the globe. We have 25 times that. And I remember—just to close—when I lived in Switzerland, I lived in that kind of environment.
KRIS BROWN:
I lived in Zurich for seven years, and I raised my daughters for seven years of their lives there. And I would often get asked the question when I was there by pretty sophisticated people who were traveling to the United States, “Hey Kris, where can I go in the United States and not get shot?” And it was a totally legitimate question based on how their press covers our gun violence epidemic, which is gobsmacking to them. They do not understand it. And I will tell you, if you live in a society where gun violence isn’t an everyday reality, you have a happiness quotient, a peace quotient that changes how you behave, and it changes how you parent. What I want is for every American to regain that because we’ve lost it. We’re not always cognizant of it, but I know too many people who stopped going to the movies or to concerts or look at where all of the exits are. That’s not the land of the free and home of the brave. That’s a stain on our country. We can reclaim that again. And that’s, I think, worth doing.
ARIA:
I mean, too often, the people who are not fighting for gun violence prevention wrap themselves in freedom. And to your point, Kris, actually, what freedom means is to be a parent who doesn’t have to worry about their kid going to school. That’s what freedom is. And it’s what we should all get to enjoy. Yeah, absolutely. Kris, thank you. Awesome.
KRIS BROWN:
Yeah, thank you.
ARIA:
Stay tuned for the second part of our interview with Steve Kerr. But first a word from our sponsor.
ARIA:
Steve, so my little brother—and my little brother, he’s 6’9″—he actually played basketball at Stanford, so he was also a Pac-10—when it existed—athlete. And it’s actually funny—you were getting a snack—I remember visiting him at Stanford, and he just had PB and Js in his bag. Dan Grunfeld came over and was like, “I have ten bananas. You want one?” My brother’s like, “Oh, I have ten PB and Js. Anyone? Lopez twins, you want?” And I was like, “What is happening?” But I get it, as a basketball player, you need to have snacks at all times.
STEVE KERR:
Yeah, I’ll say.
ARIA:
And so he had the privilege of working with some legendary coaches throughout his career and then actually became a coach as well. But you have worked, as you mentioned, with some of the greatest coaches in the NBA—Phil Jackson, Gregg Popovich. Is there any anecdote or lesson instilled in you by them that maybe went even beyond basketball strategy, leadership, et cetera? What did you learn from them that you still draw on today?
STEVE KERR:
Well, I think what I didn’t realize at the time when I was playing for them was that the culture was really set by their values and their authenticity. And they were such different human beings. Phil was a beatnik in the seventies, and he wrote a book—and it was called Maverick—and it was about his hippie life. And he talked about taking mushrooms and psychedelics. And Pop was an Air Force cadet and military style. And it was two completely different approaches, but each was so authentic and so true to their values. And I don’t think I realized it while I was playing for them. I think I put it together after the fact. But when I became a coach, and I asked both of those two and several other mentors, what’s the most important thing for me to know as a coach? Everybody said, “Be yourself. You have to be yourself.” As soon as you try to be someone else and emulate someone, you’re in trouble. And so I just think the authenticity of how you lead is the number one thing.
ARIA:
I couldn’t agree more. I mean, I was certainly not a leader on the same stage as you, but I absolutely remember trying to be other people. Like, “Oh my God, if I’m just as creative as them.” Forget it.
STEVE KERR:
No, me too, me too. I mean, you’re tempted to go that route because you see someone else who’s so successful and you go, “Oh gosh, maybe I should be doing things more like them.” But there’s a huge difference between taking an idea from someone and actually trying to take on their persona. I read about other coaches all the time, and I love to read about different ways people are leading, but it’s crucial to maintain your own approach and identity while instilling ideas that you learn from others.
REID:
I strongly agree with both you on this. A corollary that I think I may have put in The Startup of You—my very first book—is, generally speaking, you want to play to your strengths versus try to paper over your weaknesses. You have a team to help with the weaknesses side. But you want to play to your strengths, and you want to play to where you can be great.
STEVE KERR:
So true. So, the people that I hire to be on my staff, I try to hire people who can cover up my weaknesses and who have stronger abilities in certain areas where when we have a staff meeting and we’re brainstorming, I can lean on them. And that’s when it really clicks, I think, for a team, for a coaching staff, or any group of people. When everyone is comfortable that they can bring a strength and they don’t have to bring everything, especially the leader. Just knowing what you don’t know is important and really empowering others to fill those blanks. It makes them feel good and it’s better for everybody. And it just strengthens the whole group.
REID:
A thousand percent. So, Steve, we don’t normally do this, but I want to invite our showrunner, Shaun, who has not only been a Warriors fan since the eighties, but was also a collegiate basketball player himself. So I’ll resume after him, but leave the basketball nerdy question to him.
STEVE KERR:
Alright, let’s go, Shaun.
SHAUN YOUNG:
Alright. Honored to cameo for a second here. And great to see you, Steve.
STEVE KERR:
You too.
SHAUN YOUNG:
So I can think of a few of many moments where, as a coach your instincts completely changed a game. So there’s Iguodala in the 2015 finals. The Bogut versus Tony Allen matchup—which was pretty innovative and unusual in that game versus Memphis. Then letting your players run the huddles versus the Suns. Again, these are just a few of many that come to mind. So, as fans, we ask and we hear about the in-game instincts of a player so often, but less about the in-game instincts of coaches. And so really the question I wanted to ask you was that, in those instances and others, can you talk about your in-game instincts as a coach? How much of it is planned and how much of it is pure gut and feel in the moment?
STEVE KERR:
No, it’s a great question. We go into every game with a game plan, but like the old line from Mike Tyson, everyone’s got a plan until you get punched in the face, right? So you have to be ready to adjust. So, you try to envision what could go wrong? For example, foul trouble for Steph Curry. If he picks up two quick fouls, how are we going to handle that? It depends on our opponent, right? If it’s an opponent that we think he can survive against, maybe because of the personnel, I’ll let him play. If it’s a team that draws a lot of fouls and it’s really a difficult team to guard one-on-one, I’ll probably take him out. And so you go into these games with an idea of a game plan, a rotation, and then you learn over time—your team—you learn them really well, both individually and collectively.
STEVE KERR:
And hopefully, as you go through the season, you learn more and more things. You pick up things, and by the playoffs, you really have a great feel for the adjustments that you have to make. And then of course, it’s up to the gods. The ball has to go in, and that’s why every coach is subject to incredible scrutiny and criticism because we make decisions that all we’re trying to do is give ourselves the best chance. That doesn’t mean it’s going to work. So you give yourself the best chance you think, and then if it doesn’t work—I tell the players all the time the reason they pay us a lot of money is because people care and they’re emotional and passionate— and part of my job is to just take it. Just accept that we’re going to take a lot of heat as coaches, they’re going to take a lot of heat as players. This is the business. But you just support each other and live with the results.
SHAUN YOUNG:
Yeah, I love that. I love that. Thanks so much.
SHAUN YOUNG:
Yeah, thank you.
REID:
As you can tell, Shaun, for the super nerdy basketball questions. I think that was a three-pointer on that one. But that actually brings me to another question here, which is, one of the challenging changes of landscape that social media brings, and the modern world of tech, is there’s this flood of attention, participation. Athletes face judgment and criticism, especially on social media. So, how do you help do the leadership on that part of it?
STEVE KERR:
Yeah, it was really easy in my day if you wanted to avoid it, you didn’t turn on talk radio—which was like maybe from two to five in the afternoon—and you didn’t pick up the local newspaper. So, when I was a player, I would literally pick up USA Today, because I knew there wouldn’t be any stories about our team, but I could see all the box scores and the score—this is pre-internet, obviously. Once the internet came around, it changed everything. And our players now they have this judgment and criticism at their fingertips. I go in at halftime, everybody’s on their phone. It’s just the way we live. So, we use some humor sometimes to try to—I’ll just go in and make a joke. “What are people saying about me on social media?”
STEVE KERR:
“Did I get any likes on social media in that first half for my decision-making guys?” Guys will chuckle and put their phones down. But the biggest thing, honestly, is giving them the reminder that they control the input. I mean, you don’t have to look at this stuff. And when I got off of social media four years ago, it’s the best decision I made because I immediately eliminated, I don’t know, 80 or 90% of the criticism that I was reading about myself. And I don’t care who you are, you’re a human being, it affects you. But the other part of it is just—and we tell our team every year—this is a hard job. It’s a dream job, but it’s a hard job. You know, you’re going to get injured, you’re going to get booed, you’re going to get traded, you’re going to get cut, and people on social media are going to destroy you. But this is why you are making them the amount of money you are. And that doesn’t justify these crazy people out there who are making death threats if you lose a game. But it’s a reminder, if you want to do this for a living, this is the job. And now you have to learn how to navigate it. And that’s the foundation that we lay for our guys.
ARIA:
So the people who listen to Possible are nonprofit leaders like Kris, they are technologists who are building technology companies. And Reid and I, what we try to do with this podcast is to bring out everyone’s better angels. What is possible with your company, with your NGO, with your voice as a citizen? How can we often use technology to build this better future? And so, you cannot do that unless your organization, your company, is a strong team. And so, I think so many people look to you, how do you build these incredible teams? And the obvious is, well, you get some good players, you look for raw talent, you look for good statistics. What are the intangibles you think that are sometimes overlooked when you’re building those championship-caliber teams?
STEVE KERR:
Well, the number one commodity, for lack of a better word, in the NBA is a superstar player with high character. They’re just really hard to find. People like Steph Curry, or Michael Jordan, or Tim Duncan. By the way, I’ve followed all of those three through my career, and the reason I’ve had success is because I’ve been on the same team as these guys. But I’ve recognized that internal leadership from your best players is crucial. For a company out there, every hire is so important, but especially the key people you lean on. The values that you share, that you espouse, it’s really important that you share those values with your team leaders, your internal leadership. And those values have to come alive every day, they can’t be words on a wall. I’ve played on teams where their slogan’s written on a wall, and you’re like, “I don’t feel that every day.”
STEVE KERR:
I think the thing I’ve learned from my coaches is whatever your values are, if those things are coming alive every single day, then your players, your employees, they feel those values. And then it’s like, “Oh, wait a second, this is real.” And then the authenticity of the relationship day after day, the communication. If all that is real, then people look forward to coming to work and working together. Having said that, if I didn’t have Steph Curry, I would’ve been fired years ago. So you’ve got to have a good product. You have to have talent. You have to have ideas. And that’s why it’s really a collaboration. It’s multiple people and dynamics coming together at once. And even though we all try to make that happen, it’s not always possible.
ARIA:
Absolutely.
REID:
And by the way, I’ve met Steph, he’s a treasure. He’s incredible. So, the NBA has had a long history of adopting advanced analytics AI. Now taking this step further, there was one example, Daryl Morey of the Philadelphia 76ers, said that LLM models are taken into account as a vote in any decision from draft picks to game strategy. So, how has this Moneyball approach fundamentally changed how teams make decisions today?
STEVE KERR:
When I got here 11 years ago, we had one analytics person. Now we have a whole department. My coaching staff and I had no idea how to read the numbers that they were feeding us. There were all these figures that 11 years ago were not familiar to us. We were versed in the basic box score, field goal attempts, field goal percentage—this stuff that’s been tracked forever. So all of a sudden they’re giving us these numbers—points per possession, points per shot—that didn’t make much sense to us. So we started in on it—for me, 11 years ago, when I began coaching—and what we realized was we needed coaches who were younger and more versed in computers and analytics. So we started hiring some former college basketball players who had a better knowledge of all this stuff to join our staff.
STEVE KERR:
We also built up our analytics team. So, now we have a whole team of analytics people, and we have two in every meeting, every coach’s meeting. And we have young coaches who not only have been raised in the analytics world, but have played basketball using modern basketball analytics. And so my knowledge of this area now, from 11 years ago, is just dramatically different. I can actually speak the language, and so it’s easier to parse through the information. We get reams of data. I know now what matters, what doesn’t. Just through watching tape, learning the language, conversing with the analytics team, and we’re getting all kinds of stuff every day. Some of which I use with the team. And because our players now have been versed in it, they too recognize it and understand it. So I guess it’s like every other movement. People are now learning, and we’re learning together, and it’s becoming more mainstream.
ARIA:
Well, to even take it a step further, we heard that the Warriors are using AI-powered robots in some practice sessions—for drills like rebounding and simulating defensive plans. Tell me how true that is. What has that experience been like? If you guys do that and do you think robots will be part of the routine going forward? It sounds like science fiction.
STEVE KERR:
It’s not happening yet, but it’s going to happen. And last year at the NBA Tech Summit, the reason this got out there is because I did a segment where I was commanding all these robots on defensive drills, but they weren’t actually there yet. So we haven’t actually done it yet, but the robots do exist, and we are studying more and more about what’s possible in terms of what we can do on the practice floor, what we can do with our players in their development. And so it’s going to be really interesting to see what comes of it over the next decade, because this stuff it changes and happens so quickly, as you guys know much better than I do.
ARIA:
Well, that’s what I was going to say. I mean, there’s all kinds of technology. I mean, even the nutrition science and the different ways athletes eat or prepare or recover—all of that is science and technology marching forward. And so when you think about this, is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? How do you see technology in the NBA progressing going forward?
STEVE KERR:
It’s a great thing. We have a guy on our performance staff who monitors all of our players throughout practice. He’s on his computer screen, and the players are wearing monitors underneath their practice jerseys. And we are monitoring everything that’s happening with their heart and their breath, and their energy load. And we are now leaning on our performance team to dictate our practice schedule every day. Not the details of what we’re doing, but the output physically that our players put out. So, in the past, it was up to coaches to guess. We have to pace our players through the 82-game season, and you have to know when to practice harder, when to practice light. Well, now we have evidence, and we have experts who are really dictating this stuff. And I think it’s awesome because it takes a lot of pressure off me in terms of what we’re doing with the players. We have a formula now, and we think we can keep our players healthier as a result.
REID:
What’s one of the surprising results that’s come out of personal performance monitoring?
STEVE KERR:
Yeah, so, something that came out this year, we have a coaching retreat every year, and our analytics team shares different bits of data. And one of the things that jumped out to me this year was that there is a huge difference in athleticism in terms of quick burst—how fast a guy is—and then reaction time. So, some players have better feel than others, so they’re in the right spot before the play happens, because they recognize it. Other guys maybe don’t see that, but they’re more athletic. And every team has this dynamic, and when I played, I was a slower guy who knew where to be.
STEVE KERR:
And every team has faster guys who, if you have faster guys who know where to be, then you’ve got something. That’s what you’re looking for. But the faster guys and more athletic guys who don’t maybe know where to be, they have to use way more energy to get to that spot. And so what our analytics team shared with us was that some of the players around the NBA who are the most athletic and the most explosive are incapable of playing longer minutes because they’re constantly reacting instead of being proactive. I thought that was fascinating, and I never would’ve put that together without that data.
ARIA:
Absolutely.
REID:
And another thing that I think is only a question about time, and so this question is, has it started yet or not? Is with AI, we’ve got this whole multimodal thing going and there’s a variety of ways it’s already functional—ways that people don’t expect. One of the things that I’ve said a few different places is something I learned from Ethan Mollick, who is a professor at Wharton, about using cameras to study construction sites. Have you guys run the game footage through AI, multimodal analysis, and so forth? You will if you haven’t. But have you done it yet? And has there been anything interesting out of it?
STEVE KERR:
The league has cameras in all 30 arenas that gather all kinds of data. For example, one of the bits of data that we didn’t have 11 years ago, or maybe 15 years ago, was we know exactly how many miles Steph Curry runs every game. And then we collect that for the entire year. Every year, he’s number one in the league in the most mileage run. We didn’t have any of that back then. We also can tell the speed that players are running at. And so, we know who’s running fastest and how fast players are running today compared to 20 years ago. The game is dramatically faster now. We also have in our practice facility, we have cameras with facial recognition. Every time a player on our team comes into our practice arena or practice facility, and they take a shot, that shot is recorded onto a program.
STEVE KERR:
And so at the end of, if we want, every day, but we probably look at it once every couple of weeks, we have every shot that a player has taken in practice, how many he made. If he missed, was it missing left, missing right, missing long, what the arc of the shot was? And then we get together with our coaches and we realize, “Alright, we have all this data. How can we help our players?” Now with shooting, we also know which guys are working harder than others. And it’s pretty interesting. We never had any of this stuff before. And so we got a lot of data and a lot of information at our fingertips.
REID:
Another obvious one is you have opponents. Have you done any of that analysis on opponent players, too? Because that is the next logical step out of this performance analysis.
STEVE KERR:
Yeah, so, because we have the cameras in every arena, you have the data available on your opponents as well, only from games. You use the data to help build game plans. Now with proof, not just scouting, let’s say a guy has a tendency to go right, drive right, instead of drive left. In the old days, you watched a lot of tape, you watched that player, and you tell your team, “Hey, this guy likes to drive right, so shade that in.” Now we know to a tee, we know exactly on every drive, the exact percentage—maybe it’s 51%, maybe it’s 72%. So that influences how you approach the game. If it’s 72%, you’re definitely forcing him to go the opposite way where he’s uncomfortable. So it’s not just eyes, it’s eyes and data.
ARIA:
I mean, it takes scouting reports to another level.
STEVE KERR:
Yeah. Completely different.
REID:
The scouting stuff must be. And then by the way, on the biometrics, since the players are wearing the biometrics, do you data correlate the biometrics with the shots and discover things from those correlations?
STEVE KERR:
Correlation between fatigue, you mean?
REID:
Yes.
STEVE KERR:
Yes, absolutely. And fortunately, we have professionals who do that. Literally the people who are monitoring all that. Because I wouldn’t know the first thing about how to put this all together, but I have conversations frequently with our guys who are monitoring it and they’ll share with me like, “Hey, after 20 minutes of play, this guy’s shot tends to fade because he’s tired,” And you already have a sense as a coach of how long a guy’s capable of playing. But some of this stuff can be really revealing. Steph is an incredibly well-conditioned athlete, and he’s the exception rather than the rule. He still shoots really well even after playing 35 minutes. But you definitely learn, there’s limitations on effectiveness of a certain player once he gets past that threshold. And as I said, now we have a performance guy on a computer sharing that knowledge because he also has access to the analytics team that tells him the shooting percentage after a certain period of time. So, it’s crazy the difference between now and even 20 years ago, what we were doing.
REID:
By the way, I’m envisioning—because we have this kind of star athlete within AI researchers and so forth—I’m just thinking about what the parallels between what you’re doing here and what you might do at an AI company with the person who’s being paid.
STEVE KERR:
So, have you thought of any?
REID:
I mean, we’re doing amplification and code agents and so forth, but there’s probably some natural things about watching performance of how you build code, do AI research, and so forth. Biometrics, what the outputs look like, what the fitness function looks like, and then coaching the better performance. And given that the salary levels are, if anything, some of them probably even bigger. So the function of, for example, should you actually have this whole get-up? Should you have coaches and so forth trying to improve it? The answer is absolutely yes, given that it’s the economic thing that shows that performance.
STEVE KERR:
Yeah.
ARIA:
Let’s move to rapid fire.
REID:
So, is there a movie, song, or book that fills you with optimism for the future?
STEVE KERR:
I just read A Gentleman in Moscow, and I don’t know if you’ve read it, it’s a great novel about a guy who’s stuck in a hotel for basically most of his adult life. And he has a great line, he says, “Control your circumstances or your circumstances will control you.” There’s a bunch of wisdom in that. And he makes this wonderful life out of his own circumstances, which aren’t ideal, but it’s a great reminder that we will adapt as we go. And I believe in humanity. I believe in people. If we’re able to avoid some AI apocalypse that I have been reading about lately, then I believe that human beings will figure this out, and we will be able to forge a good future.
ARIA:
Excellent book. And we can talk to you about that AI apocalypse, so you’re not worried about that one at least.
STEVE KERR:
Thank you. Thank you.
ARIA:
Question number two. Is there a question that you wish people asked you more often?
STEVE KERR:
Yeah, I think the criticism that I —it’s always funny to me because it’s like this is all we do in my world—it’s like everyone’s an expert out there. And I get it. Because I’m a sports fan, and so sometimes I sit there watching a football game like, “Why’d the coach do that?” I get it. But I wish people would say, “Why are you doing what you’re doing?” Instead of, “What the hell are you doing?” Because we’ve got lots of answers.
REID:
Exactly. Where do you see progress or momentum outside of basketball that inspires you?
STEVE KERR:
I see a younger generation of leaders, the people who started March for Our Lives, the Parkland kids. When I see young leaders like that, it gives me hope. We have not left a great society for our children, obviously. So when I see young people who are leading, like Greta Thunberg or the March for Our Lives Group, I’m hugely inspired. And I believe that there’s a lot of good that will come in our future from those young leaders.
ARIA:
Well, Steve—as one of those people who dutifully bought a Kerr-Popovich 2020 shirt back in the day—I just want to say you also have just inspired a generation of people that you can be literally working at the highest levels and with integrity, standing up for what you believe in. So, we appreciate it a hundred percent. And our final question—because I think amidst these challenging times, we do need optimism and hope, and we have to think that the future’s going to be better—can you leave us with your final thought on what you think is possible to achieve if everything breaks humanity’s way in the next 15 years? And what’s the first step to get there?
STEVE KERR:
Oh man. What a tough question.
ARIA:
It’s really quick. Just 30 seconds. Let us know.
STEVE KERR:
Quick. Yeah, yeah. Going back to Kris Brown and the idea and gun violence prevention is a great metaphor for lots of issues that we have. I think the majority of us are actually connected. We really are. We all want the same thing. We want safety, we want family, we want health, we want opportunity. In my view, can we cut through this world of technology that is purposely dividing us, along with the people who are doing, I believe something will happen. Because in our nation’s history, things have shifted all the time. And we’ve had some really dark times. And this is a tough one, but I think things will shift, and that will be revealed somehow over the next 15 years.
ARIA:
I certainly hope so. Steve, thank you so much for being here.
REID:
Yeah, awesome.
STEVE KERR:
Thank you guys so much. Really enjoyed it.
REID:
Possible is produced by Wonder Media Network. It’s hosted by Aria Finger and me, Reid Hoffman. Our showrunner is Shaun Young. Possible is produced by Katie Sanders, Edie Allard, Thanasi Dilos, Sara Schleede, Vanessa Handy, Alyia Yates, Paloma Moreno Jimenez, and Melia Agudelo. Jenny Kaplan is our executive producer and editor.
ARIA:
Special thanks to Surya Yalamanchili, Saida Sapieva, Ian Alas, Greg Beato, Parth Patil, and Ben Relles. And a big thanks to Khalid Robinson, Graeme Crews, Laura Marqués-Jackson, Georgette D. Brown, and Jessica Gerber.